Wigan Athletic and the loan system

Posted by JJ (Tony) in Specials and tagged with , , , , , , , ,

How many of the club’s most successful youth team will ever play for its senior side?
Photo courtesy of Wigan Athletic FC.

Critics of the loan system in English football say that it is there for the benefit of bigger clubs helping them to stockpile young talent. They cite the example of Chelsea as taking things to the extreme.

At the beginning of this season Chelsea had no less than 38 players out on loan. Half were sent to English clubs, half overseas.  In addition to those coming through their academy Chelsea buy up young talent from all over the world, typically sending them out on loan immediately to get experience. Some will come back and get a first team place, but for most the experience helps boost their market value and they are sold off.

But clubs in the lower divisions are so often happy to take the loanees. Using a loan player over  a relatively short period of time frees them from tying up their capital in long term contracts, which can be problematic if the club runs into financial difficulties. Moreover the clubs can use the loan market to cut wage bills by sending their own players on loans where other clubs pay their salaries. Andrew Taylor was signed for Wigan Athletic by Uwe Rosler in the summer of 2014 on a three year contract. He played 26 games for Latics in that first season, but has played no competitive games since for them. Last season was spent on loan at Reading, this season at Bolton.

The loan system also provides a lower division club with the opportunity to assess a player’s capabilities prior to making a decision on a permanent signing. In Wigan’s case it enabled them to sign Yanic Wildschut from Middlesbrough in January 2016 after a three month loan period.  It proved to be the most lucrative financial transaction the club has made in recent years, making a sizeable profit, even if critics might say it contributed to the lowly league position Latics now find themselves in. Reports suggest that Wildschut was signed for less than £1m and sold for a figure approaching £7m, although there may have been clauses in the deal made with Middlesbrough assigning them a portion of a future transfer fee. Nevertheless the club had used the loan system much to their benefit.

But Emyr Huws had been brought to Wigan on loan in the summer of 2014, resulting in Latics paying Manchester City reputed to be around £2.5m near the end of the summer transfer window. An ankle injury in the early part of the season severely hampered Huws, leading to him making only 16 appearances in 2014-15. After expressing his desire not to play in League 1, Huws went on loan to Huddersfield Town the following season, only to sign for Cardiff City last summer for a fee in the region of £1m. Latics had made a considerable loss on Huws, although we can only surmise on what would have happened if he had not suffered that ankle injury, something that has continued to dog the player.

Sometimes players are sent out on loan in the final stages of their contracts. Typically it is a way of helping them find future employment, when their contracts are not going to be renewed. Uwe Rosler signed Martyn Waghorn from Leicester City after a successful loan period in 2013-14. Stephen Warnock was given a permanent contract last summer after joining on loan from Derby County in March 2016.

But Wigan Athletic have signed 32 loan players over the past three seasons, with only Warnock and Wildschut becoming permanent signings. The majority of the loan signings were made in the January window. Faced with mass departures in the fire sale of January 2015, Malky Mackay made seven loan signings, none of whom were to stay on at the club at the end of the season.  Warren Joyce also made seven loan signings in January 2017.

The sheer number of loan players signed by Latics over the past three seasons has led to fans questioning the policy. Why have so many loan players been signed, when such a tiny proportion have gone on to sign permanent contracts? Moreover if the club is serious about its Academy why has it brought in so many youngsters on loan from other clubs? Put simply, has the club been helping other clubs in developing their young players at the expense of home grown talent?

The stats are damning. In the past three seasons only four graduates of the Wigan Athletic Academy/youth system have played in league matches for the club. They have made a combined total of 15 starts, with 12 substitute  appearances. The most appearances were made by Tim Chow (6 starts, 9 sub), Luke Burke (4 starts, 1 sub) and Jordan Flores (3 starts, 2 sub), with Lee Nicholls making two end of season starts against Brentford and Barnsley.

The case of Luke Burke this season is one seems to typify what has been happening. As an 18 year old Burke made a promising debut in the opening game of the season at Bristol City. He had come in seemingly full of confidence from a good pre-season and his success as captain of Wigan Athletic’s most successful ever youth team. However, as the season progressed Burke was to be marginalised, then sent on loan to Barrow. The right back position has continued to be problematic this season, with either midfield players put in there or young loan players brought in. They include Reece Burke (20), ostensibly a central defender, Callum Connolly (19) and Jamie Hanson (21).

Wigan Athletic are by no means the only EFL club to use the loan system in such a way. It has become commonplace throughout the three divisions. However, given the focus on building a strong academy, bringing in such quantities of young loan players is surely detrimental to the development of the club’s own home-grown talent.

Given the fact that Latics have been struggling against relegation since day 1 this season it is perhaps understandable why home grown talent has been so sparsely used. The irony is that last season’s youth team reached the fifth round of the FA Youth Cup for the first time, only losing in extra time to Manchester City. The club has arguably its brightest cohort of academy graduates. Will they continue to find their paths blocked by the presence of young loanees from other clubs?

Another thorny issue faced by clubs bringing in loan players involves stipulations from parent clubs regarding game-time. In certain cases clubs will only lend out their players if they have a commitment that they will be given opportunities in the first team.  Loans can involve fees and penalties based on appearances made. The omission of Matt Gilks in favour of Jakob Haugaard against Rotherham was  a surprise. Moreover Graham Barrow was reluctant to discuss it at his post-match interview. Was it because of pressure from Stoke City to play the Danish goalkeeper now he is fit again? Or is there a game-time clause in the loan agreement that involves financial penalties if not met?

With relegation beckoning many of Wigan Athletic’s squad will be looking at their futures. The last time Latics were heading for League 1 there was a huge clear-out of players over the summer, followed by Gary Caldwell signing fourteen new players, with another six coming in on loan.

The same will surely happen this summer. Most of the current squad will most likely be gone, with lots of new signings and loan players brought in. But what kinds of opportunities will be given to the club’s home grown talent?

The EFL Futures initiative has been set up to encourage clubs to develop young players through their academies. A sum of £750,000 per season will be shared out to clubs who field players under the age of 21 who are eligible to play for England (or Wales for Cardiff, Newport or Swansea).  The cash rewards will be shared out pro rata, depending on the number of qualified players and appearances made.

One wonders in what position  Wigan Athletic will appear in the list of recipients at the end of next season?

 

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A murky future for Latics – a Chinese buyout or Mike Phelan?

Posted by JJ (Tony) in Specials and tagged with , , , , , , ,

A murky time for Wigan Athletic.

 

These are unsettled times at Wigan Athletic. A team that has relegation staring in its face unable or unwilling to show the urgency needed to stave it off. The departure of the Head of Football Operations with barely a murmur from the fans. A new contract for a player who has hardly made an impact this season. The Sun newspaper telling us that another of Alex Ferguson’s men could be taking over as manager. Then the blockbuster rumour that Dave Whelan is looking to sell up, with a Chinese consortium visiting the facilities at Christopher Park, Euxton and the DW Stadium.

The players are surely caught up in this too. It has been an awful season with so many of last year’s squad finding the step up to the Championship division tough.

Some will say that the squad just has not had enough quality to compete in the higher division, but there were players of flair and high technical quality there at the start of the season. Nick Powell was always going to be a risky signing, given his horrendous problems with injury in recent years, and so it has proved. Saturday’s cameo appearance shows what a difference he could have made if he could have stayed fit. Jordi Gomez was another flair player and he had a great record in the Championship division with Latics and Swansea.  Gary Caldwell used him sparingly, Warren Joyce too, being seemingly content to shunt him off to Spain in January. Joyce also lost Latics’ most dynamic player and potential match winner, Yanic Wildschut, to Norwich City’s over-generous offer in January. Alex Gilbey too had shown flair early in the season before receiving a serious injury from which it took him months to recover.

Having had to make the massive shift from the possession football of Gary Caldwell to the hoofball of Warren Joyce the players have lost much of their ability to pass and receive the ball. Moreover with the end of the season approaching and League 1 beckoning, so many will be unsettled. Until the last couple of games a willingness to fight for the cause has rarely been lacking in the players, who have suffered so many heart-breaking defeats by fine margins. The seeming lack of urgency is surely a manifestation of a feeling of insecurity for so many of them. They know that the last time Latics were relegated there was a huge exodus of players, with 22 new players coming in.  Indeed some may have already been told to start looking for another club.

Matt Jackson’s departure was labelled as “the end of a consultancy period” on the club web site. After rejoining Latics in 2011 the ex-team captain had taken over as Head of Football Operations. Interestingly the club communique tells us that Jackson had not been involved in player recruitment for the past 18 months, although he was part of the newly formed Player Recruitment Department from the summer of 2015. Jackson was heavily involved in the Latics Academy and the switch to Euxton.

The announcement of a new two year contract for another ex-captain came as a surprise to many of us. Craig Morgan was a rock upon which League 1 was won last season, but has not had an easy time this year. Injuries and an infection have limited his availability and the 31 year old has made just 12 starts and 5 substitute appearances this season.  The contracts of Jussi Jaaskelainen, David Perkins and Stephen Warnock are also due to expire in June.

Given the results it is appears more and more unlikely that Graham Barrow will continue as manager next season. Indeed there are even rumours that a new manager may be brought in before the season finishes. Doing so would give a new incumbent the opportunity to decide on contracts and the players he would like to keep.

For weeks now we have heard rumours that ex-Hibernian and Rotherham manager and Bolton and Everton player, Alan Stubbs was a frontrunner. The rumours may have been fuelled by the fact that John Doolan, who was Stubbs’ first team coach at Hibs, has already rejoined Wigan. Moreover Stubbs will have been visible watching his son, Sam, play for Latics’ youth team and development squad. However, the assertion that ex-Manchester United assistant manager, Mike Phelan, might be taking the reins has already been met with concern by fans.  It also appears that a return for Gary Caldwell is a possibility.

To add to all of this uncertainty the alleged visit of a Chinese consortium is of even more import. The visit might well be tentative, but is this an indication that the 22 year Whelan dynasty will soon come to an end?

Much has been said and written about DW’s incredible success at the club. If he had not taken over in February 1995 what would have happened? Would another buyer have come in and made the investments that Whelan made? Not likely. The club was not an attractive proposition at the time, languishing in the fourth tier with attendances so often below 2,000. Its only real asset was Springfield Park. Whelan invested  with a mission to propel his home town club into the Premier League. Estimates vary as to how much he put into Wigan Athletic, but the figure appears to be somewhere between £90 m and £100m.

The club is surely more sellable in 2017 than it was in 1995. It has a more tangible “brand” after its successes in recent years – winning the FA Cup, reaching the final of the League Cup, eight years in the Premier League. But other than its players what assets does it have? Both the DW Stadium and the Euxton facility are owned by companies linked with the Whelan family, not the club itself.

Should the Whelan legacy continue we can expect continued financial backing for the near future at least. The club will be expected to be as financially self-sufficient as possible, although achieving that whilst maintaining success on the field of play will be a challenge. Wigan Athletic’s fan base has grown to maybe five times what it was in 1995, but still does not match those of the majority of clubs in the Championship. It is more akin to those of clubs in League 1. Moreover to maintain attendance levels the club has had to resort to cut-price season tickets. Put simply, the club will not have the revenue to seriously compete, even in League 1, unless there is backing from the ownership.

However, although Dave Whelan will surely provide a buffer for the club in the near future there appears to be no way that he will be making the scale of investment he has in the past. Given the club’s current predicament it is highly unlikely that it will reach the top tier of English football again in the foreseeable future.

Eleven of the twenty four clubs in the Championship are now owned by overseas investors. Aston Villa, Birmingham City and Wolves are Chinese owned.

In the long term it is unlikely that the Whelan family will continue to inject funds into Wigan Athletic. There will surely come a point where they will say “enough is enough”, but would anyone be tempted to buy a club that does not own its own stadium or training ground?

It is a time of uncertainty at all levels within the club. Ownership and management issues further cloud a murky near future.

 

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Latics fans react to the Ipswich defeat on social media

Posted by JJ (Tony) in Social Media and tagged with , ,

An hour before kick-off, anxiously waiting for the lineup that Graham Barrow was going to play at Portman Road. The caretaker-manager was severely hamstrung by the loss of both of his mainline strikers, Omar Bogle and Will Grigg. Was he going to put in the raw Mikael Mandron, plucked from non-league football, but nevertheless  a physical presence and goals to his name, albeit at Eastleigh Town? Or was he going to field the same forward line that finished the Newcastle game, short of physical presence?

Once the lineup was posted most of any pre-match hopes were doused. Could Latics really go into a crucial match like this without a recognised central striker? They did.

In the event it was defensive errors that handed the three points on a plate to Ipswich. On the other hand did the Wigan Athletic team really have the belief that they could pull off a good result in East Anglia?

After the match Graham Barrow was clearly fuming about the performance and critical of senior professionals for making errors that gifted a 3-0 win to a mediocre Ipswich side. But in our heart of hearts, did we really believe that Latics lineup was going to get a result? Confidence at rock bottom, following the devastation of the Joyce era, was there really any way Barrow could change the mind-set of a group of players who had unlearned the basics of good football?

It has been an awful season, paralleling that of 2014-15. Gary Caldwell certainly made mistakes this season, but was prematurely dismissed. Maybe we assumed the club would put in someone with more experience, who knew the division. But the disastrous outcome was the inept Warren Joyce.

Barrow is not everyone’s favourite to take the helm, but he had a mountain of a task to repair the damage done by Joyce when  he took over.  The players too, had a mountain ahead of them.  Under Caldwell they had played possession football.  But Joyce had them playing hoofball, often with ten men in defence. Joyce killed whatever fire Will Grigg had left by first leaving him out of the lineup, then playing him out of position. Then he brought in Omar Bogle, full of confidence, but destroyed that by isolating the player, devoid of support. Both are injured. Hopefully, with time, both will regain their confidence, but whether that might be at Wigan remains to be seen.

The sad situation is that, under Caldwell in the Championship, Latics were cautious, seemingly in awe of the opposition. As a result the goals were not going  to flow. But under Joyce it got much worse. Some said the defence tightened up under Joyce, although the stats do not reflect that. Many would say that the central defensive partnership of Burn and Buxton looked much more solid, although how much of that is due to the midfield having taking up primarily defensive roles alongside them is open to conjecture.

Although staying up might remain mathematically possible, Latics are practically relegated. According to who you speak to, the outlook of getting back to the Championship is either rosy or bleak. The half-full brigade will say Latics have enough good young players to come back up and become a backbone for the future. Their half-empty counterparts will say that most of the talent will be sold off in summer as Latics adjust to a massive cut in income. Instead of a £15-20 million wage bill in the Championship they will adjust towards the £2-3 million figure typical of so many clubs in League 1. Investment by the Sharpe/Whelan family is the unknown factor. Without it, Latics are unlikely to get out of League 1 for years to come, competing on an even keel with others in the division.

Once again we trawled the social media following another adverse result , with more speculation on the future. Our thanks go to the Cockney Latic Forum, the Vital Wigan – Latics Speyk Forum, the Boulevard of Broken Dreams on Facebook and Twitter for providing the media for the posts below to happen.  Thanks go to all whose contributions are identified below:

WhittleBlue on Latics Speyk commented:

Six games remain, sadly four of these are at home.

With the absence of any strikers (are Grigg and Bogle out for the season – I can’t recall any club communication actually confirming they are injured) the chances of us seeing the ball hit the back of the opposition net is somewhat slim.

The entertainment value is nil at the best of times and God only knows what affect another four goalless games and likely defeats will do to the prospects or retaining anyone other than the long term, hardcore fans next season. I’ve already heard kids on the way out of the DW saying they don’t want to go anymore. We don’t have a manager so it’s difficult to see the vision going forward and we don’t know what the season ticket prices will be next term. If we shift more than 3000 I will be very surprised. We all know it will be all change on the playing front again and only the dross will remain. The powers that be don’t understand the concept of a balanced squad nor do they feel communication with the fans is important. There is little for the casual fan to buy into. The damage being done is long term, not short term and incompetence at boardroom level that has led us here is quite remarkable and shows no sign of abating.

Our performances are pathetic and we have become relatively uncompetitive. We can longer field a centre forward as we only have two that are unfit and so it’s seems pointless taking to the field to see out the campaign. We are an embarrassment to this league. It’s a slow, torturous death and the end cannot come soon enough.

Stephen Warnock23 @StephenWarnock3 tweeted:

I can only apologise for my own performance last night. Simply not up to the standards I try and set myself.Embarrassed is an understatement

Jonny_SuffolkLatic on Latics Speyk commented:

Probably in a minority, but to me the entertainment value has come back a bit. I’ve gone into the past 2 games having accepted relegation, just wanted to see some attacking football and us not frightened to have a go as we were under Joyce, and we’ve done that pretty much. Yesterday was a shambolic display defensively, and unlike Villa and Newcastle we definitely deserved to lose, but at the other end, with no striker, we put in a good shift at least – and could’ve had a couple if it wern’t for Bialkowski being phenomenal. You’re probably right in that nothing but getting a win is going to win over casual fans, but for those who have followed us through the darkness of this season, I would hope there might at least be something to get out of seeing the team go at the opposition for 90 minutes each game until the end of the season.

Donnys page on the Cockney Latic Forum asked the questions:

What’s needed is a time machine to take us back to the end of last season to see what really happened and to why Mr Sharpe let this freefall happen.
Why have we played in such a negative manner all season?
Why Gary was not replaced with an experienced manager.
Why was Yootha allowed to sign players that were unfit?
Why has there been such an emphasis on midfielders all season?
Why have we been so dull to watch all season?
Why has there been no emphasis on attacking football?
Why do players not performing get picked?

Cupwinners on the Cockney Latic Forum said:

Whoever made the desision to let Fondre go in the Jan window should be taken down to market square and publicly flogged with a cat n nine tails made up of knotted Tic scarfs.
No club at any level should ever be left with anything less than 3 recognised strikers,but then again its Latics.

Andronicus on Latics Speyk added:

We actually did okay tonight attacking wise and their keeper made some cracking saves although it has to be said Gilks also made some great saves as well ! Defence though was abysmal and pretty much non existant with the central defenders looking like strangers!! Sadly Barrow is not the answer to our problem and we should be bringing someone in now to get his feet under the table for next year! So sad walk back to the hotel now and talking to the Ipswich fans they cannot get over the fact that their own mis firing team were given such an easy game tonight! Get someone in NOW!!

Jeff’s right on Latics Speyk opined:

I would have had Colclough on the right of midfield where he should be. Two youngsters from the development and youth up top. Jacobs (if the worst signing in our history Obertan isnt fit yet fit yet) out left, Gilbey and McDonald in centre midfield and four at the back. Simple. Every player in position.
Tomorrow though Sharpe needs to be down at Euxton and overseeing his shambles. Sack off all the loan players and Obertan and do what he should have done after the Bristol game start preparing for league one.

David Green on the Boulevard of Broken Dreams said:

So league 1 here we come. Lets look at the possitives no negatives because had more than enough of them.

1 cheaper tickets
2 not that many long trips ( exeption of possibly portsmouth ,plymouth and southend ) but wont be bad weekenders unless on a tuesday night .
3 a few more local games/derbies
4 good standard of football
these are only a few things i for one am looking forward to. Up the tics

Vincehill  on the Cockney Latic Forum gave his view:

From what I saw of Rotherham last Saturday in just the highlights footage I’m fully expecting them to drive the final relegation nail in on Saturday.
Let’s be honest the team is just not good Enough for this division which is so frustrating when you look at what Barnsley and Burton have done.
I keep reading deluded posts saying we can still do it but i gave up the ghost after the Bristol city game and with no strikers ( ??????) it’s all over end of .
The rot set in last summer with poor planning and investment and then the sale of wildschut and again no proper investment has left is in a real
Mess that quite frankly will continue next season if a major change in the club isn’t made .
To say it’s a disgrace isn’t doing it justice but they need to make these changes NOW especially with the season tickets sales about to start.
3 relegations in 5 years when only one in the previous 35 suggests the club has a major problem that lies beyond the players and manager and a huge change is needed throughout the club.

King_de_Zeeuw06  on Latics Speyk was far from happy with the performance:

The fact we played 5 at the back with 3 static defensive midfielders in a must win game shows me despite Barrows talk of ‘going for it’ – we simply aren’t. Negative tactics have been a common theme through all 3 managers this season and if it’s not changed by now i can’t see it changing at all until the new boss comes in.

I was really unhappy with last night after seeing that performance, but I’m absolutely seething now i’ve seen how other results went. They all went for us and if we could’ve got a win against a poor Ipswich side who had nothing to play for we’d have been back to 4 points adrift with Rotherham at home next and a ray of hope. But the set up lacked any ambition, there wasn’t enough fight and we might as well scored 3 own goals for them with the appauling mistakes we made trying to suicidally over play from the back under pressue. It was the type of game you expect the team to come out like men possessed and show some bravery and fire and we just completely bottled it. In other games we’ve been poor but at least the lads made the opposition work to earn their points, but last night was the easiest 3-0 win any team will ever get. We had everything to gain and nothing to lose by having a proper go and nearly all of them went missing – utter disgrace.

Martinh on the Cockney Latic Forum gave his summary of the season:

There’s no doubt that this has been one of the most depressing seasons in living memory, but can we put our fingers on what exactly went wrong? Below, I’ve listed my thoughts, but please chip in with your own in the hope that someone at the club might read and learn from some of this.

1) Caldwell’s clearout. He should never have let Pearce go, or send Morsy and Colclough out on loan. The team that won the league last year should have been given a chance in the Championship.

2) Going the whole season without a recognised right back. That’s apart from Luke Burke, of course, who impressed over three games or so, then was allowed to go out on loan.

3) Signing so many midfielders. How could the team possibly incorporate Nick Powell, Jordi Gomez, Michael Jacobs, Yanic Wildschutt and Alex Gilbey, or David Perkins, Shaun McDonald and Max Power? The squad was so imbalanced that just about all those players ended up filling in at right back.

4) Certain players not turning up. Alex Bogdan goes without saying, but Power, Grigg and Jacobs were all disappointing.

5) Did we panic and sack Caldwell too early?

6) Hiring Warren Joyce. I think we can all agree this was a mistake. Whatever reputation he had as a coach was undermined by some of the most boring football Wiganers have ever seen. To his credit, though, we did start defending better and he brought Morsy out from the cold.

7) Lack of professionalism.,We’re run by a 20-something chippy manager (or are we?), and Jonathan Jackson has been invisible all season. No manager since Martinez has been allowed to bring in their own backroom staff. Instead, we rely on a network of old boys who, this season, seemed to come and go intermittently (Pollitt, Cribley, Jackson, Atherton, Doolan, Barrow). It’s great to see them back st the club but are they the best people for the job? Joyce’s comments about fitness levels or the number of unexplained long-term injuries recently (Reece James, Donervon Daniels) would suggest not,

Getting rid of the local lads. Chow, Flores, Jennings and Burke may not have been worldbeaters but, in this situation, they may just have tried a little harder for their local team. Furthermore, we might have given them time rather than getting on their backs; local players are good for morale and no seen as mercenaries like Tinnicliffe and Hanson.

9) Too many loan signings, some of whom (Marcus Browne) were moaning as soon as they got here and half of whom were injured anyway.

10) Selling Wildschutt. The price may have been right but he was the only player who provided any surprise bits of magic all season.

So, which is the most important? Or can you add your own thoughts as to where it all went wrong?

 

 

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Latics fans react to Villa defeat and reflect on club’s future on social media

Posted by JJ (Tony) in Social Media and tagged with , , ,

Another home defeat and a step closer to relegation. But following the desolate reign of Warren Joyce there are signs that positive football will once again become the norm at Wigan Athletic.

Graham Barrow is by no means universally popular among Latics fans. His supporters will say he is “Wigan through and through”, someone they associate with the successes of the Martinez era, a lover of good football. His detractors identify  him as being the lowest common denominator in  the club’s slide from their heyday. But in any case, David Sharpe has told us that Barrow can keep the manager’s job if he can steer them clear of relegation. That is unlikely, if not impossible.

With relegation staring their club in the face, fans are wondering if Latics can get back up to the Championship if they once again find themselves in League 1 next season. Last time they had a huge financial advantage over the other clubs in the division, through parachute payments. Will we see a fire sale at the end of the season, with the best young players sold off to the highest bidder? Would enough good players remain to get Latics back up?

The financial gulf between Latics and most of the other clubs in the Championship was highlighted once again yesterday when Villa brought the £12 m Scott Hogan off the bench. Villa’s lavish spending contrasts with the austere approach of the Sharpe-era Wigan, where the player most likely to help the team stay in the Championship was sold off in January. Sharpe may yet come to rue the £7 m sale of Yanic Wildschut.

This is not to suggest Latics should splash money around like the bigger clubs in the division, but perhaps they should have made more investments over the summer. One of the players that Gary Caldwell wanted, but could not get, was Barnsley’s Conor Hourihane, who played against them for Villa yesterday. Given the so-often woeful deliveries we have seen from set pieces this season, someone with Hourihane’s ability to launch dangerous deliveries into the box could have made a huge difference.

What kind of financial backing will the Whelan family continue to give Wigan Athletic? Is there any possibility that they will sell the club in the near future? Would the club be a proposition for a willing investor, given the fact that it is the Whelan family who own the DW Stadium, not Wigan Athletic?

Once again we trawled the social media following yesterday’s result. Our thanks go to the Cockney Latic Forum, the Vital Wigan – Latics Speyk Forum and Twitter for providing the media for the posts below to happen.  Thanks go to all whose contributions are identified below.

Moonay on Latics Speyk responded:

…..Whittle …… you support a club who since breaking into the Football League in 1978 have reached the League Cup Final, spent 8 years in the top flight of English football, and put their name on the most famous Cup in Club football ……. you support Wigan Athletic.

‘Be reet ! ;o)

Laticsince1978 on the Cockney Latic Forum commented:

What an improvement! As daft as it sounds we were so much better today took the game to the opposition and looked the better side.We took the game to the opposition and have now finally got something to work on. The points will come now with performances like that even if its to little to late we were relegated 2 years ago with a poor side if were relegated again we still have a very strong squad. And as for the villa fans good support pity they weren’t behind the team that much when they were mid table just in front of us in the premier league last time they were here half full away stand another example of big club we support when we want.

Stewart Hart @No1fan tweeted:

Most entertaining #wafc performance for a very long time. Villa quality told in the end, but shows what a wasted 4-5 months under Joyce.

Fathamp on Latics Speyk said:

 Whittle has a downbeat view, completely justified just now but the last few years have spoilt us and really we haven’t got the right to expect to be beyond the bottom 2 divisions. We are gravitating to where we belong so we simply should accept that, otherwise a world of pain awaits. I don’t see an Armageddon scenario unless the support drops off a cliff due to unfair expectations

 Adding:

 Or should that be doesn’t deserve one. The townspeople simply won’t back the club enough to enable latics to properly compete now. We have had our day in the sun at whelans expense, but now it’s back to our natural place with the support we have….old div 3 or 4. Forget whether the rugby town, too many other clubs nearby, poor area etc excuses/ reasons are legitimate, the fact is that a club with 7,000ish fans….and fewer next term, can only be competitive in the lower leagues.

 Vital Wigan @LaticsSpeyk tweeted:

#wafc so much better today despite the result pity Joyce wasn’t sacked 2 months back

 Tertsflan on the Cockney Latic Forum commented:

That was a good performance. Awful decision by officials for first goal. Would have been a different game had we have got the foul on the keeper

 Jonny_SuffolkLatic on Latics Speyk added:

Sharpey is making mistakes, and whilst they are financially costly, I don’t think they are club threatening – not like something you’d see at a QPR or Pompey. The ownership are often accused of being tight, and taking the cheap options, but whilst I don’t see that to be the case, the fact that such allegations are made shows that we are far from the recklessness financial spending that comes round to spell a club’s doom. Might be being naive, but I just don’t see the current ownership driving us to a position where our very existence is in question.

On the pitch, I think there’s a good chance we may settle to our natural level for the size of the club in League One, but the right manager and squad can still change that. Problem is, Wigan Athletic have had a journey that other clubs can only dream of over such a short space of time of only decades; promotion through the leagues, Premier League survival miracles, Europe and an FA Cup win, and the problem is that adjusting to the slightly more mundane reality most clubs hold as the norm will take some getting used to. The idea that we may float along in League One for a number of seasons is so alien to us that questions about the future of the club can seem grave, but I imagine that even if we end up with seasons of obscurity in League One, we’ll still be striving for something, and there will certainly still be a Wigan Athletic.

Peter Millward @PeteMillward79 tweeted:

Barrow: ‘We want to try and throw all that caution out of the window – get out there and enjoy it’. And so say all of us! #wafc

Jocklatic on Latics Speyk summed up the performance:

I too came away from the Villa game with a better feeling than I have for a few months albeit with disappointment in not getting something out of the game. I could have taken where we are in this league now if we’d given the same sort of fight / determination we did today all season but sadly we didn’t thanks to the negativity / set up we had under WJ. Saying that tho we are still woefully lacking in any sort of goal threat / clinical finish despite the stats increase from today’s game. Had we this impetus a month or so ago then who knows…..might even have been sitting mid table safety by now….. . But hey as we know that’s not the LATICS way…till its mathematically impossible to survive then BELIEVE…. u never know.
I get what ur saying in that the stadium is too big for us but there’s nothing we can do about that & despite the lack of parachute payments next season I just hope upon hope that we can keep a good chunk of this squad if / wen we go down….if not then it cud be very Portsmouth esq. No doubt numbers will decline but we’ve hardly been blessed with a big fan based nor even a very vocal one despite the great effort today against a near capacity away end who for the first 10/ 25 min made us sound like the away support…..great atmosphere today btw & just shows how the crowd respond to positive play.

On a side note…. the fat lady ain’t singing yet

Leylandlatic4ever on the Cockney Latic Forum provided his perspective:

Yes can’t disagree. Much better performance and unlucky not to have scored given the number of chances (when was the last time we said that?). Downside….well that’s sadly obvious. Whilst we’re not technically down, and I won’t give up until it’s physically impossible, I think today was the end of the line. Now 7 points off safety…a minimum of 3 games.  Sorry but just can’t see us escaping from that, especially with the away games we’ve got. Even if we can win all 4 home games left, 46 points is very unlikely to be enough.. Upside…we’re going to Southend again to stand under that corrugated iron roof

Neil Eccleston @wiganlaticsgoon tweeted:

If Barrow can get a performance like that after only 4 days he will do for me , just luck the Difference today , still Fighting #wafc

YonMon on Latics Speyk gave his opinion:

I would say Wiganers will support a Wigan Football team. But only if they are winning regularly. Our rise up the leagues proved that from averaging around 1500 when Whelan took over to just under 20000 in our last Premier League season. Unfortunately we don’t have a large established fan base to fall back on like our Northwest neighbours. As attendances drop as we fall back down the leagues they will grow if we climb back up.

I still think though that the Barnsley performance and result last season had a negative affect on this seasons ST sales. A large expectant crowd left disappointed meaning some of our old fans not returning this season.

TrueLatic4ever on Latics Speyk  suggested:

Divisions 3 & 4 are full of skint clubs with no ambition and owners who refuse to invest.

We will fit in nicely.

Pskl on the Cockney Latic Forum added:

 Tell me why anyone wouldn’t buy us. Stadium runs 12 months a year weddings etc plus whatever we get from the rugby. It as a restaurant unlike alot of stadiums and a football team which will attract crowds in a region of 10000-12000 fans in the championship. All this could be sold if the whelans would include the stadium in the sale.

BickyMon on the Cockney Latic Forum concluded:

Really enough saying its manager fault ._..The fault lies directly at the top thats where our problem is.
We are owned by people that are stuck with the club and cant sell it and wont push the boat out anymore
Thats why we get likes of caldwell joyce and its not their fault ._.Yes we know they where not good enough the owners knew and took a huge gamble that has made us see the worst season in football i have seen in years
Worst of all not one of the owners have stood up and said anything to the fans about this tragedy of a season
And why they let it get into this sorid state. Whelan out

He also said:

Was not long ago whelan stated if a suitable buyer came along with good intensions for wigan athletic he would sell the club to them for just 1 quid. Has he did not want to burden his familly with wigan athletic if anything happened to him. Thing is nobody will buy wigan athletic for 1 quid because it would not include the stadium or any training facility
He wants to sell but own the stadium thats the problem what would any buyer be really buying ?

 

 

 

 

 

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Joyce has gone – time to BELIEVE again

Posted by JJ (Tony) in Reflections and tagged with , , , , , , , , ,

Do we BELIEVE that Latics can get out of this predicament? Table thanks to Statto.com

David Sharpe did the right thing today by dismissing Warren Joyce and his close associate Andy Welsh. Some might say the chairman deserves praise for swallowing his pride and realising he did the wrong thing in November. But Sharpe is pragmatic enough to know that if he had kept Joyce in charge, Latics would surely have been doomed to relegation.

One of the fundamental building blocks in Wigan Athletic’s rise from the fourth tier to mingle for so long with the elite clubs of English football was sheer BELIEF. It was the belief of Dave Whelan in his managers – Paul Jewell, Steve Bruce and Roberto Martinez – that led to the club to an FA Cup, a League Cup Final and eight years in the Premier League. Whelan backed them, not only with his chequebook, but with his driving ambition to hold Wigan Athletic up there.

There were certainly sticky moments along the way, but there was always the hope that things would turn out alright in the end. They did apart from that fatal night at the Emirates, just three days after Ben Watson’s unforgettable goal had won them the Cup. But Whelan had chosen his managers wisely.

Jewell’s teams were built on solid defence, but always had flair players in attack. Whelan opted for continuity when Jewell left, giving the post to his assistant, Chris Hutchings. Sadly it did not work out and Hutchings was gone after barely three months in charge. Bruce came back to the club, Whelan backed him in the transfer market and he righted a foundering ship. His teams were based on a solid defence protected by a rugged midfield, but with a good smattering of flair players to provide balance.

Martinez was brought in to keep Latics in the Premier League on a much reduced budget. He went on to produce the best results in the club’s history, away wins at Arsenal and Liverpool, the club’s one and only victory at home to Manchester United, that epic victory on cup final day. Martinez was a great ambassador for the club, through his insistence that his teams compete against star-studded opposition by sticking to the principles of skilful possession football. The FA Cup victory against Manchester City was no fluke: Wigan had played the better football on the day, with not a hint of skulduggery.

Was Whelan just lucky with his appointments of Jewell, Bruce and Martinez or did he have a vision of what they would do? If he was lucky with those three, he certainly was not with his appointment of Owen Coyle. Neither was he in appointing Malky Mackay and his grandson made a similarly woeful appointment in Warren Joyce. None of those three names – Coyle, Mackay, Joyce – became synonymous with good football at Wigan Athletic. Indeed it was quite the reverse.

But Whelan did make a good appointment in Uwe Rosler, who picked up the mess left by Coyle and got Latics to the FA Cup Semi Final and the Championship playoffs. Sadly the going got rough in Rosler’s second season, but rather than showing faith in a manager who had achieved so much, Whelan showed him the door, bringing in the hapless Mackay. Sharpe did a similar thing with Gary Caldwell, who had only months before won the League 1 title. His replacement was the inept Joyce.

Sharpe has done the right thing for the moment. The odds are that Latics will not be able to avoid relegation, but without the shackles imposed by Joyce the players can make things happen. Few of us really and truly believed that Joyce was the right man for Wigan. To BELIEVE that Joyce could save the club from relegation was asking too much, given his obsession with the defensive side of the game and the hoofball we were witnessing.

Graham Barrow has been appointed caretaker manager again. Barrow is a survivor who has seen six managers come and go since rejoining the club in 2009. Barrow is not the kind of coach who will throw caution to the wind, but we can expect him to field line ups that are more balanced that we saw under Joyce. Due attention will be paid to the offence, as well as the defence.

With Barrow in charge we at least have a hope that we can BELIEVE our team can avoid the drop.

Courtesy of Statto.com

 

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