Tag Archives: wigan athletic

A Reading fan’s view of Jem Karacan

Posted by JJ (Tony) in Fan Views and tagged with , , , ,

 

It appears that Wigan Athletic are about to sign 27 year midfielder, Jem Karacan. Karacan is a free agent, having been released from his contract at Galatasaray by mutual consent.

Jem Karacan was born in London to a Turkish father and English mother. In his early teens he played at Wimbledon, declining an offer to join Galatasaray, his father’s favourite club in Istanbul. He went on to join the Reading youth system.

Karacan signed  a professional contract with Reading as an 18 year old in the summer of 2007, but spent most of the 2007-08 season on loan at Bournemouth and Millwall. He went on to make 155 appearances for Reading between 2008 and 2015, scoring 11 goals. This included 21 appearances in the Premier League in 2012-13.

In September 2013 Karacan had been badly injured in a game against Leeds, suffering damage to his anterior cruciate and medial ligaments. The injury kept him out of action for a year. He returned to first team action in January 2015, but received another injury set back that put him out for a couple of months. He went on to make 8 appearances in that 2014-15 season.

On the expiry of his contract in the summer of 2015, Karacan joined Galatasaray. He made one start and one substitute appearance for Gala before being sent on loan at Bursa, some 2 hours drive from Istanbul. Karacan went on to make 6 starts and 3 substitute appearances for Bursaspor after joining them in February 2016.

Should Latics sign Karacan it will be a gamble, given the player’s past injury problems. However, Karacan was held in high regard at Reading and if he could regain the form of those earlier years could prove a shrewd signing.

In order to learn more about Karacan we asked Dan Wimbush, editor of Reading fan site The Tilehurst End Blog (@TheTilehurstEnd) to respond to a few questions. Here is Dan’s response:

1. What type of midfield player is he?

He’s great at a variety of roles but ideally he’s the terrier in a pair or a three through the middle. Jem brings real energy and passion to the side but he’s more than just a dogsbody to do the running as he’s got a tough tackle in him as well as being able to grab the odd goal. 

I wouldn’t have him sitting in front of the defence or in a 10 role but in old-world terms he’s a perfect No 8. 

2. Strengths/weaknesses

Strength wise, his energy and passion are certainly up there. He formed a great partnership with Mikele Leigertwood between 2010 and 2012 that saw us reach a play-off final and win the league and if you can find the right partner for him at the DW he’ll do really well. As mentioned he’s not to be ignored creatively either and in his final seasons at Reading he was just beginning to show what he could do when given more freedom, until a horrific injury against Leeds nearly ended his career. 

Weakness wise and he’s not amazing in the air, and his recent injury struggles can’t be ignored. However, as he told us himself, he never picks up small niggles, it’s always big nasty injuries, so I’m not sure if that’s a good or a bad thing!

3. Effort/Popularity with the fans

Jem was well loved by the Reading fans and was a popular choice for Captain despite being injured at the time. He came through the Reading Academy and always gave 100% for the club. He had a few minor moments in his youth where he rubbed fans up the wrong way on social media but that’s very much in the past, he’s grown up and has a very mature outlook for someone still in their late 20’s. He’s happy to engage with fans on social media and always spoke well in the media. 

4. Why did he leave Reading? Effect of injuries?

Injuries and finances really. He’d been out for 15-months and Reading were waiting to test his fitness before offering him a significant long-term deal. By the time they were convinced, one of his boyhood teams, and his Dad’s team, Galatasaray had offered him a big deal he just couldn’t refuse. The two sides parted on good terms though and fans understood his decision to take financial security and the chance to play in the Champions League.

5. Would you re-sign him for Reading?

In a heartbeat, though I’d be wary of a long-term deal until he’s got some regular game time back under his belt. If he gets back to the level of play we saw just before his injury in 2013 then he’ll be one of the best in this division but after injuries and barely any game time in Turkey it might take him a while to get back up to speed. 

 

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A mental amount of movement

Posted by JJ (Tony) in Specials and tagged with , , , ,

nixon

Alan Nixon is not every Wigan Athletic supporter’s favourite journalist. But he is very active on Twitter and seems to get hold of inside information on what is going on at the club. Sometimes his prophesies come to fruition, but not always. Since tweeting the above message he has let us know that Bolton are interested in Adam Le Fondre and that Nathan Byrne and Craig Davies are on their way out to League 1.

Nixon’s phrase a “Mental amount of Movement around Wigan” seemed to strike a chord. There has been an extraordinary turnover of staff over recent years. Since the summer of 2015 we have had six managers – Roberto Martinez, Owen Coyle, Uwe Rosler, Malky Mackay, Gary Caldwell and Warren Joyce. Coaching staff have come and gone, with the exception of Graham Barrow who is in his eighth year since re-joining the club in July 2009.

When Warren Joyce was first appointed there were rumours of him being joined by ex-Manchester United stalwarts, Paul McGuinness and Jim Ryan. Since then there have been no announcements from the club, but yesterday a photo of McGuinness involved in Latics’ training appeared on Twitter.

mcguinnessRavel Morrison appears with Nick Powell, with another ex-United player, Cameron Stewart partially hidden behind Dan Burn.

So, the turnover at Wigan continues. McGuinness looks set to come in, but whether that would mean a departure for Barrow remains to be seen. Nixon could well be right about the possible ins and outs over the January window. The numbers might be well short of those of fire sale of January 2015, but could match those of last January.

The club itself has published details of the ins and outs of players at the club since May 2015. There has been a huge influx and outgoing of players since then. The stats cause one to question the club’s recruitment policies. Why has there been so much turmoil and when will it stop?

According to the figures released for 2015-16, there were 31 incomings and 44 outgoings, loans being included.

The stats for 2016-17 up until the summer transfer window show 14 coming in and 20 leaving.

The critics will say that the huge turnovers have been caused by poor recruitment, players being brought in but released within months. Indeed, if the rumours of the impending departures of Nathan Byrne and Adam Le Fondre prove to be the case then a couple of players acquired at the end of August 2016 will be gone in January 2017.

In some cases, such players have been recruited as free agents or for nominal transfer fees, although in others the quantities will have been more substantial. So many players have been given away at knockdown prices in efforts to bring down the wage bill and clear the way for new ones coming in.

Changes of manager have exacerbated the situation, with the newcomer typically wanting to bring in his own men, supposedly to fit into the style of football he prefers, although one remains to be convinced that has always been the case.

People have expected an influx of ex-Manchester United personnel since Joyce arrived. It could well be that Ravel Morrison and Cameron Stewart will be the first contingent to join Reece James, Andy Kellett and Nick Powell who worked with Joyce in Manchester.

Wigan Athletic’s recruitment policy continues to be a cause for concern, both in terms of causing instability and coming with a heavy financial burden that the club can ill-afford. The agents’ fees alone for all those incomings and outgoings would make interesting reading.

It has indeed been a “mental” amount of movement.

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Latics fans react to Rotherham defeat on social media

Posted by JJ (Tony) in Social Media and tagged with , , ,

kendrick

Local journalist, Paul Kendrick, was summing up Wigan Athletic’s first half performance through Twitter. The second half saw Latics shaking off the lethargy of the first 45 minutes, dominating the play, pulling back two goals. But sadly it was not enough.

The starting lineup was a shock to most of us. It had just one holding midfielder, with two wingers and two central strikers. For the second game running Warren Joyce had put forward an attacking lineup. But it proved to be a naiveity as Wigan’s  midfield was unable to feed those attacking players and to adequately shield its defence.

It has been a depressing Christmas period for Latics fans. The announcement of a loss of £2.3 million for  last season was accompanied by a realistic, if somewhat foreboding, statement from Chief Executive Jonathan Jackson:

“The future outlook after the current season is a challenging environment. The club is now receiving the final year of parachute payments which have significantly inflated turnover for the last four years. The EFL Championship is populated by clubs backed by extremely wealthy owners, who are prepared to lose enormous amounts of money in pursuit of promotion to the Premier League. Even clubs recently relegated from the Premier League are finding it difficult to compete in this expensive and ultimately unsustainable race for the ‘promised land’.

The financial support of the Whelan family has allowed the club to enjoy incredible success in recent years, without incurring the large financial losses suffered by similar clubs, and that support allows us to continue to pursue long-term goals in the future. The club will always aim to compete at the highest level possible but we must also be realistic in our ambitions and ultimately financial sustainability must continue to remain our priority.”

At the moment Latics are on the road back to League 1. Can Joyce turn things around? Will he get the backing he needs from his chairman for urgent January signings? Are the current problems due to the manager, the players or “the club” itself?

We took a look at the social media following yesterday’s match and came up with a wide range of views. Our thanks go to the Cockney Latic Forum, Vital Wigan – Latics Speyk Forum, The Boulevard of Broken Dreams (Facebook) and Twitter for providing the media for the posts below to happen.  Thanks go to all whose contributions are identified below.

 

Jordi Gómez ‏@JordiGomez14  tweeted:

Missed opportunity to get a result today, but table looking the same than yesterday. Let’s keep going.

Paul Kendrick ‏@PKendrickWIG listed the injured players unavailable to Joyce:

Worth pointing out missing from today’s squad: Morgan, Burke, Garbutt, Daniels, James, Powell, MacDonald, Perkins, Gilbey, plus Bogdan #wafc

Chairman David Sharpe ‏@DavidSharpe91 tweeted:

Know you all care, so I understand your frustrations. However, we’ve always faced adversity together, so let’s continue to face it together.

But ex-Latics captain and WISH FM commentor Neill Rimmer ‏@neill_rimmer sent a couple of tweets saying:

Terrible result today, time to stop blaming the managers & look above!

Lot of good people have been pushed out of the club. Results getting worse.

Nottinghamlatic on Latics Speyk suggested that Latics do not belong in the higher echelons:

Brutal fact of football life is that if too few fans are interested a club will not survive at the top level i.e. Premier League and Championship. We are heading back to our natural level i.e. League 1/2. This is where we belong after our brief flirtation with the big time. I think we have to get used to it. We have people at the top who won’t take risks now. Wigan people won’t take risks with their hard earned dosh, either.

Neil Aspey on The Boulevard of Broken Dreams said:

The owner and the alleged chairman need to think about what they want for the club. Cheap everything done on the cheap and a series of disastrous decisions have got us to where we are now.

Stuart Alker‏@stuartalker was also critical of the chairman:

The sooner some of our fans wake up and get from up the chairman’s backside and realise he’s a big part of the problem, the better. #wafc

Bickymon on the Cockney Latic Forum talked about the Whelan family possibly selling up:

Not looking good is it i said give joyce a chance but now i fear for the clubs future. Only way forward is whelan familly to sell up and go. Too many huge mistakes made last couple of years we are going backwards division 1 looks like our level With this lot.…….I must be going blind because we seem to be heading back to those dark years before whelan. Understandable nobody wants to buy us whelan knows that his familly is stuck with the club and we are stuck with them

Henski on Latics Speyk advocated a return for Gary Caldwell:

Sharpe made the biggest mistake of his short career sacking Caldwell. He followed it up with an even bigger one.He has ruined the season and perhaps many more to follow.He should go cap in hand back to Caldwell before it’s too late. Sharpe needs to fix this mess he has created!

Hindleygreenlatics on the Cockney Latic Forum went so far to suggest that Graham Barrow be put in charge:

I am not one for changing managers – I never wanted Caldwell to be sacked I firmly believe he was starting to turn it around and we would have been ok. I also believe the club has made a big mistake with Joyce. I don’t like him putting the cones out before the game, him wearing shorts, seemingly side-lining all the coaching staff, making Barrow sit in the dug out when he used to do an effective job in the media gantry sending down messages to the bench. I don’t like him referring to one of our players as “Powelly”. I don’t like the fact that he comes across as an idiot!

I guess I don’t seem to like his amateur approach. Most of all I don’t like the negative almost defeatist attitude to games.A mistake has been made in this appointment and while it will look bad on the club I believe the mistake needs to be rectified ASAP. Even if that means giving the job to Barrow until the end of the season.

King_dezeeuw06 on Latics Speyk added:

We can never say how Rosler and Caldwell would’ve done for sure. But if they stayed without a big improvement in their managerial skills, results, performances and transfer dealing we were very likely going down. So sacking either made sense and i look back i don’t regret either.But the issue has come with picking poor replacements and things getting worse. Those replacement choices I do look back on and regret.

Wiganfanfrank on Latics Speyk commented that:

It’s a joke that managers are fired these days for so little. We havent had a healthy right back all year, no true goalkeeper, inconsistency in the center of the park, striker personal issues and a lot of unlucky goals. Then we had to start over in the middle of the season, and the performances have not been any different than under Caldwell. We have the talent to stay in this league, we need a lot of help in January to stay in this league. I never agreed with firing Caldwell, but now I think sacking another manager would hurt us even more.

Tom Prescott ‏@tomprescott94 tweeted:

Joyce doesn’t fill me with any enthusiasm but I still think it’s as much the players then the manager. We just aren’t good enough. #wafc

Garswoodlatic on the Cockney Latic Forum put the blame on the players:

it was the Summer window in which we got rid of players who had bonded well into a feelgood team who knew how to win, and replaced them with some very poor replacements.Not Joyce’s fault. Blame the so-called players.

Owen Hughes on the Boulevard of Broken Dreams advocated bringing in youth:

AFTER TODAYS RESULT PLAY THE KIDS AT LEAST 5 OF THEM ARE GOOD ENOUGH WE WILL SEE MORE EFFORT

Paul Knowles ‏@paulknowles66 tweeted Paul Kendrick@PKendrickWIG

I feel like the managers lack of charisma is reflected in the team. Our players are better than this! #WAFC

Bert Hughes ‏@_Bert_Hughes tweeted the chairman:

@DavidSharpe91 Depressing financial message last week and now this result. We are in a downward spiral at this moment in time.

bert

Elbalson@elbalson tweeted:

BREAKING NEWS:

Wigan Athletic’s strategy for the upcoming transfer window revealed –

elbalson

 

 

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A case for Luke Burke and home grown talent

Posted by JJ (Tony) in Player profiles and tagged with , , ,

 

“Luke who’s back for Rotherham”

So said Paul Kendrick’s seemingly uplifting headline on the Wigan Today website. Was it a sign that Warren Joyce was showing faith in the club’s home grown young talent? Wasn’t that one of the major drivers in his appointment?

Alas, I was mistaken. The article referred to the return of Luke Garbutt, a 23 year old left full back on loan from Everton until January 2. In my mind it had been Luke Burke, the 18 year old right back who has been at the club since he was 13. Maybe my hopes were high because  Burke had appeared on the bench against Ipswich last Saturday. His last first team appearance had been on September 10 at Sheffield Wednesday.

Now I have nothing against Luke Garbutt, who was signed as a left back. The Yorkshire-born player has done well to force his way back into the team under Warren Joyce, after a couple of months on the sidelines under Gary Caldwell. Garbutt has a sweet left foot, his delivery from set pieces being particularly good. Joyce has played him in various positions, including right back.

The regular left back, Stephen Warnock, has been Wigan’s most consistent performer this season. But Joyce decided to switch him to the right against Ipswich to keep an eye on the Tractorboys’ winger Tom Lawrence. Warnock was not at his best, a left footer playing on the right.

Since Luke Burke’s last appearance Latics have used a myriad of players on the right of defence, none of whom are specialists at playing that position. Those who have played right back/right wing back include midfielders Alex Gilbey, David Perkins, Max Power and Yanic Wildschut, together with Andy Kellett who was a left back but is now regarded as a midfield player. Joyce’s first choice for the position had been 20 year old West Ham loannee, Reece Burke, who was signed as a central defender, before injury meant he had to return to his parent club. Nathan Byrne has also played there but was signed as a wing back or winger, lacking the defensive qualities of a natural right back.

Luke Burke was playing for Liverpool Schoolboys when he was spotted and brought to Wigan. He has had an impressive career within the club, playing for development squad when 16, forcing his way into the first team at 18 after an impressive pre-season. Last season, Burke was captain of arguably Wigan Athletic’s best-ever youth team which won the Youth Alliance and reached the fifth round of the FA Youth Cup, taking Manchester City into extra time in an inspired display. In the previous round they had beaten Derby County, a Category 1 academy team. Most of those players have now risen up to the development squad. Once they have got sufficient experience at that level their potential will be appraised. Some will be sent on loan in lower leagues to strengthen their competitiveness, others will be released. It is only the rare cases like Burke who leapfrog straight into a first team place.

Burke certainly impressed in this year’s pre-season, so much so that he had been likened by pundits to Leighton Baines, the most successful of Latics’ academy graduates in recent years. The resemblance to Baines showed itself to some degree in his competitive debut at Ashton Gate. Burke gave a fine performance before having to come off after 77 minutes due to a head injury. He continued in the 3-0 win against Blackburn, being withdrawn after 75 minutes. Burke started in the next match against Birmingham, but was withdrawn tactically after 48 minutes, an attacking ploy by Caldwell who brought on Michael Jacobs in his place. Burke found himself on the bench for Caldwell’s ill-judged venture of playing Yanic Wildschut as a wing back at Nottingham Forest. He was to be brought after 64 minutes after the manager attempted to tighten up his defence. Burke started in the 2-1 defeat at Sheffield Wednesday, but was withdrawn at half time for Adam Le Fondre.

Burke received the Michael Millett Award as youth team player of the year for 2015-2016. But sadly, receiving that award has hardly been a precursor for future success at the club. Only time will tell if Burke does better than his predecessors.

The winner in 2014-2015 had been Louis Robles with Gregor Rioch commenting that: “Louis is a shining example on and off the pitch of what everyone at Wigan Athletic is striving to achieve.He’s a leader in both senses too, wearing the armband and scoring 30 goals in the process, including a hat-trick in the recent Lancashire FA Youth Cup final.”

Sadly Robles was released a year later and is now playing college soccer in the south of the United States. The  previous winners  Matthew Hamilton (2013-2014), Joey Johnson (2012-2013) and Ryan Meadows (2011/2012) too were released without making the first team. But the 2010-2011 winner, Tim Chow, went on to make 18 senior appearances for Latics.  The 2009-2010 winner,Lee Nicholls, made 12. Both were released last summer.

It has been reported that Burke has had some injury problems this season that have impeded his challenge for a first team place.  But the right full back position has remained problematic and nobody has established himself in that position over a series of matches. Too many players have been played out of their best positions where they have looked less than comfortable on the right of defence. Four of them have been naturally left footed players, making things even more difficult for them. However, they have all been members of the senior squad, while Burke has been training with the development squad.

Luke Burke was injured prior to Joyce’s arrival, picking up a hamstring strain in a development squad match against Oldham Athletic on October 19. He was starting his recovery when Caldwell was dismissed on October 25. Following rumours that other Championship clubs were keen on signing Burke he was offered a new contract until the summer of 2018. Gregor Rioch commented that:

“Luke has made huge strides in what has been a whirlwind 12 months or so for him. He was one of the stand-out performers last season for the Under 18s and, having been offered pro-terms, to find himself in the first team picture so early on in his career was a great boost that has given him a knowledge of the standards he needs to reach. This is a recognition of all his hard work, so big congratulations to him and his family and I am confident he can continue to progress.”

Following the signing of the new contract  he  made development squad starts in the 3-2 win against Port Vale on November 23, the 1-1 draw at Fleetwood on November 29 and the 3-3 draw with Barnsley on December 6.

Burke also played for the development squad in another game against Fleetwood last Tuesday when Latics fielded a couple of trialists. However, on the same day an article appeared in Wigan Today where Joyce was quoted as saying:

“Luke’s been injured since I’ve been at the club, and he’s only just coming back.  I’ve not seen a lot of him, it’s only the last week or so that he’s been back involved.”

Joyce’s comments are puzzling to say the least.

It appears unlikely that  Burke will start at Rotherham, although he could get a place on the bench. The likelihood is that  Garbutt will start at right back.

The preference of recent Wigan managers to play young loannees over homegrown talent has been a bone of contention with so many fans. It is something that was particularly frustrating in the Malky Mackay era when the young loan players largely failed to deliver.

Latics confirmed their faith in  Burke by extending his contract. The player himself acknowledged the challenges ahead for him after signing his new deal:

“To get the chance to play in the first team was amazing. I know I have to work really hard to impress the new manager and show him what I can do. The leap in standards from Under 18s to first team was huge and I think I improved massively with the experience of playing at that level and against top professionals. It’s just given me a taste for more but I know that I need to work really hard to earn my chance again.”

Joyce’s appointment was very much influenced by his proven record of developing young players. Luke Burke promises to be the first of a talented cohort of 18/19 year olds at the club to establish himself as a first team player. Burke was joined on the bench against Ipswich last weekend by winger James Barrigan and defender Sam Stubbs, but there are other talented home grown youngsters also worthy of such an opportunity.

It will be interesting to see which route Joyce will set for Burke over the coming months. Will he send the talented youngster on loan to get more first team experience? Or is he willing to give him a chance of playing for a Wigan first team currently facing a relegation battle?

Much will depend on Joyce’s efforts to get hold of a quality right back in the January transfer window. The position has remained a problem for the past 18 months. Donervon Daniels would be an option, but remains some way away from full fitness. One can only wonder if Gary Caldwell would still be here if he had been backed in the transfer market when he went for Hearts’ exciting young full back Calum Paterson over summer. What a difference he might have made to the balance of the team.

Joyce’s immediate attention will be on the Rotherham game and the relegation dog fight that Latics currently face. Only time will reveal how his more long-term plans for developing young players within the club materialise.

 

Latics fans react to Newcastle result on the social media

Posted by JJ (Tony) in Social Media and tagged with , , , ,

tabledec

Following a 2-0 home defeat on Wednesday night, Wigan Athletic lie second from bottom of the Championship table with almost half of the season gone. Newcastle’s victory puts them top. Some billed it as the match between a £2 million minnow and a £100 million giant.

Despite at last including Will Grigg in the starting lineup, Warren Joyce remains a controversial choice as Latics manager. After 6 matches in charge his record reads W1 D1 L4, goals for 3, goals against 9.

Joyce continues to divide opinion among the Latics faithful. We took a look at the social media following last night’s match and came up with a wide range of views. Our thanks go to the Cockney Latic Forum, Vital Wigan – Latics Speyk Forum, The Boulevard of Broken Dreams (Facebook) and Twitter for providing the media for the posts below to happen.  Thanks go to all whose contributions are identified below.

 

Stephen Warnock @ StephenWarnock3 tweeted:

1st half simply not good enough. Better 2nd but still not good enough.

Andrew Baker on the The Boulevard of Broken Dreams posted that:

I thought we were ok in spells last night. Disappointing that a mistake lead the first goal as I thought we looked good until they scored. I’m a bit concerned about how we reacted to going a goal down. We seemed to be all at sea, but then regrouped again after halftime. I thought Grigg was ok, for a guy who hasn’t played much football. Yanic looked the main threat again, but as always lacked the end quality.

Goodbrand Stats @StatsChristian tweeted:

#Wigan have set a new club record of 5 consecutive home league games without scoring. Barren. #wafc #LaticsStas

Paul Kendrick @PKendrickWIG tweeted

Two stats from tonight’s game: #wafc  Shots on target: 1, shots off target: 9 #nufc: Shots on target: 8, shots off target: 1.

Dwdan on Latics Speyk commented that:

Not one Wigan player would get in the Newcastle team, but second half in particular I thought we put a real shift in and rattled them. Grigg looked lost first half, was better second half but still didn’t show that he can cut the mustard at this level in my view. Ipswich a must win match now I feel.

Mr Brownbill on the Cockney Latic Forum said:

They were dire…including Villa Saturday and up to Griggs header it was 158 mins without a shot on goal.Never seen passing as crap in years and caught in possession constantly. “Next 3 games are important” state the obvious why don’t you. ….the last 3 were too and nil goals ,nil points.The first half was painful to watch ,embarrassing at times and anyone who has watched us recently must be on the happy tabs if they can wrench any positives from that mound of tripe. Season so far is a pantomime form the pre-season recruiting to last night it has been a horror show and I for 1 cannot see this manager pulling us out of the bottom 3. All those who think the transfer window will come to the rescue then you really are straw clutching.

Craig Aspey @AS_caspey tweeted:
Having said all of that, thought tonight overall a better performance than seen this season so far. Beaten by a massively better team #wafc

Blupru on Latics Speyk was cautiously optimistic:

I was one of the first to slate WJ and in my opinion rightly so for the last few matches, however after watching tonight’s match I do feel there is a glimmer of hope he may turn it around. Very happy to see Grigg back and I thought the lads gave a brave account. Hopefully WJ has seen the way forward and now has a bit of belief.

 Vincehill on the Cockney Latic Forum was not so hopeful:

Shades of the 2014-15 season however this team is poorer than that in my opinion. A total lack of ambition will send this club into oblivion if some serious team investment is not made in the new year.The rot set in in 2009 when we went from an established premier league outfit in the top ten to a club fighting relegation each season. Yes we won a major trophy in that time but the club has most certainly been in decline since then regardless of that. Last night was like watching schoolboys play their teachers and I realised then that regardless of manager (ridiculous decision sacking caldwelll btw) we have had it unless changes in playing personnel are made in January and the war chest brought out !

Andy Crowther on The Boulevard of Broken Dreams pointed out the tough opposition Latics have faced since Joyce’s arrival:

People what to sit back and take stock and realise who we played since Joyce took over and stop calling for his head and saying he has not got a clue. Barnsley scoring goals for fun we held them to nil nil away Huddersfield top 6 when played beat them away Derby Won 5 in row unlucky to lose 1-0. Villa away goal in 88 min lost us a point away perm last year Newcastle odds odd to go up prem last year yes they won 2-0 but until 2 second goal we was in game and might have got a draw next 5 or 6 game will decide how we will get on in league . Only game I not seen since Joyce took over is Villa and even game we improved since Barnsley. Tonight expected us to sit back whole of match like did at Huddersfield and think we got a point let hold it to nil nil but we did not with team selection we tried to make chances which we did but Grigg was 1/2 a yard of pace to get on end of crosses. Maybe not match fit or not good enough. But Newcastle are well odds on to win league and we made them look ordinary.. So next few games will decide how far we go on this league.

Viciousfinger on Latics Speyk speculated on why the results are not improving:

Lots of effort but no real plan of how to compete is how I’d describe it. Once again we didn’t get on the front foot aside from a 15 to 20 min spell in the second half. Can’t knock them for effort but something is lacking and I can’t decide whether it’s a lack of quality, a lack of a game plan or a bit of both. I do believe we have the players to hurt teams but there’s a little something missing right now.

The Otter on the Cockney Latics Forum referred to funding:

How odd. Earlier this season when people were calling for Caldwell to be sacked a lot of people said the extra money we had compared to the rest of the division was the reason we won the league and not the manager. Now we’ve got the 2nd lowest budget in the league it seems that the money spent by other massively wealthy clubs is irrelevant.

Philip Moss @mossylatic tweeted:

I fail to see a single benefit that the Caldwell sacking has had.. #wafc

JJ_WAFC on Latics Speyk offered a revealing insight into recent and future events:

…….some of you may or may not know I do actually have some contact with different people in the club and visit Euxton quite regularly and have been involved with a number of clubs all over Europe, ranging from coaches to board level so I like to think I have a decent understanding of our beautiful game and some of the well lies I have read on this forum from people apparently in the know is quite laughable.

Firstly get used to Warren Joyce he will be here on the first game of next season regardless of what division we are in, we have invested too much money into him to pay him off by being sacked and it was one of the provisos he took the job, the length of his contract for security. We are quickly being tied with the same brush as Leeds/wolves etc and we cannot afford to have managers in and out as we do need to pay them off.

The whole Will Grigg debate, the lad hasn’t been fit full stop he had a virus and lost quite a bit of weight doubled with lack of sleep due to being a new dad the lad has been bugg….ed in all honestly. I saw him training with my own eyes on Monday and I have never seen him as sharp, believe me what WJ is doing behind the scenes is hectic, he is running the lads into the ground building them up to a fitness level he expects. One of the funny things I did read on here was Grigg has no pace? Really? as in the 20m sprints in training he is one of the fastest players we have but hey you may know best. Will Grigg will play a massive part from now on and believe me I saw a lot of him in training last year and I if I had seen him as sharp as he is now I cannot remember it.

WJ will make changes in January but only by selling first, before criticism gets thrown at him juts look who 4 of his games were against 4 of the top 5 of the division. Those games wont define our season, the next 2 are huge. He looked for a way of beating the best sides in this league and it came good at Huddersfield and we lost against Derby, Villa and Newcastle 2 of those are some of the biggest sides in English football not just the championship with millions at their disposal.

I was very skeptical about the Caldwell sacking as I was one of his biggest advocates but seeing how things have changed recently I’m beginning to warm to Warren and his methods. Gary had no plan b and saw his way would win him games, the major thing Warren has for him is he adapts to each game and sets his side up the best way he feels can beat that side, you may be surprised how we set up against Ipswich is all I can say.

I will stick my neck out and say he WILL keep us up……

 

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